Kevin Cataldo: To start, can you state your name and current occupation? 

Interviewee (MBG): My name is Michelle Brown-Grant. My life’s work has centered around P-16 education for 32 years, particularly in urban settings. The last 12 years have focused on being a practitioner-scholar as an Assistant Professor of Teacher Education. I am currently an educational consultant and a curriculum and teaching doctoral student at Teachers College, Columbia University.

KC: As you know, this issue is about culturally responsive teaching, and you’re known for teaching courses in education methods, early childhood, communication in educational settings, literacy, school policy, and supervision. You’ve also led professional development workshops on culturally responsive teaching for pre-service and in-service teachers and school leaders in urban school districts. Can you start by describing how you became a culturally responsive teacher?

MBG: My journey to becoming a culturally responsive educator began my first year of teaching in the fall of 1988. Thinking I was ready to transform my old neighborhood as a human development major from Cornell University, I encountered a group of students who challenged me from my first day alone with them. More than half of them were repeating third grade; some of them for the second time. The look of defeat and the anger some of them expressed in my early days with them was enough to make anyone give up. I followed my colleagues’ advice in ‘don’t smile ‘til Christmas. Keep them separated in rows.’ I valued their advice at the time since some of them were my family’s former teachers. Few of their strategies positively impacted my classroom climate. Some days I left work crying out of frustration and feeling helpless about how to help some of them see their value. Then one day, my brother came to visit. Within five minutes, he identified every student with challenging behavior by observing where they were positioned in the classroom. For instance, he could tell which students felt hopeless, did not see their value as a learner, and were genuinely angry with life. His unfiltered analysis unleashed memories of watching my classmates with gum pushed on their foreheads and having to sit in their waste because of a no bathroom policy. I’d succumbed to problematic practices permeating urban schools which rendered some of my students into the category of deviant. That is students who would not go on to succeed in life and fall into the hands of our criminal justice system. Imposter syndrome surfaced. In other words, at the time, I felt that my undergraduate career did not truly prepare me to make a difference in my community as I had hoped. My undergraduate university did not include educational theory or methods in its catalog of thousands of courses. Though my professors there allowed me to create independent courses and field experiences to learn about schools, fundamental knowledge about the science of teaching escaped me. Rather than abandon my students, as more than 50% of teachers do in their first few months of teaching in urban areas, I decided to pursue knowledge about teaching and learning. This led to my enrollment in a teacher education program at Teachers College, Columbia University in the spring of 1989. My reading methods and reading diagnosis courses very quickly offered insight into where some of the gaps in my students’ learning existed.

Next, I realized that many of my students needed more affirming experiences in school. Though I’d experienced success sitting in the same desks etched with remnants of some of my classmates’ carvings, those students did not envision themselves as achievers. A transformation emerged in my classroom when I began to link students' interests and cultures into my lessons. One of my students had difficulty with math concepts; however, she could remember every outfit and matching shoe I wore for weeks at a time. Once I let her share her recollections mathematically, that student showed others how to construct combinations of patterns and arrays. We celebrated her success on a math assessment on the topic. The memory of watching her lift her head from the desk with a gleam in her eye, then saying, “Really, I did it?” still moves me. Incorporating their lived experiences and celebrating their achievements, made a difference. 

By my third year of teaching, I created my mental tool belt with instructional practices and resources that would allow me to meet all my students' learning needs and provide them with learning experiences that would enable them to enhance their cultural awareness. This meant numerous trips to cultural institutions around NYC as well as our community. Whereas others saw abandoned buildings and empty lots, my students learned to view elements of their community that were assets. They discovered how there were many places of worship within a three-mile radius from their school. Imagine a group of eight and nine-year-olds with clipboards taking notes and drawing images in the neighborhood back in the ‘80s. Walking trips to McDonalds and White Castles exposed them to adding, calculating tax, subtracting across zeros, and counting change. An excursion to the Apollo Theater in Harlem to witness a live radio show showed them the importance of communication. My students walked through the school building singing songs which affirmed them as students. I can still recall a poem by [Teachers College] alum Lindamichelle Baron (1981) we chanted daily- “This is the way, hey. We start the day, hey. to get the knowledge, hey. to get to college, hey. We won’t stop there, hey. Go anywhere, hey. We work and smile, hey. cause that’s our style, hey. This is the way we start the day, cause we don’t play, hey. Now, what do you say? HEY!” (Baron, 1981).  I added the last line to the poem. Wow! I can still remember it. We climbed school stairs counting by threes, fours, or whatever multiples we needed to remember for our multiplication and division facts that week. Oh, the raps my classes and I used to make up as mnemonic devices to remember facts. My third year of teaching was my most memorable. From the trips, collaborations with special education classes, and freedom to teach as long as I “covered the curriculum,” my black and brown students’ performance on district, city, and state assessments exceeded expectations.

Later in my educational program at [Teachers College], the scholarship of Dr. Gloria Ladson-Billings, Dr. Sonia Nieto, and Dr. Geneva Gay fueled my interactions with students. Their work enhanced my tool belt by offering me research and a language to confirm how my instructional practices strengthened my students’ achievement. In essence, I evolved into becoming culturally responsive. 

Some of those same practices I used in teaching in the Bronx evolved as I began to teach in the suburbs. Later as a supervisor, director of instruction, principal, consultant, and teacher educator, I began to share principles guided by research and my experiences which led to successful classroom climates where students could thrive. Those ideas included: 

• Investing in learning about one’s students through informal assessments and conversations. This will facilitate creating and strengthening a community of learners.
• Viewing students’ diverse backgrounds as assets. Consider strengthening every part of their development- social-emotional, cognitive, physical as one creates learning experiences.
• Having high expectations for student learning and scaffold students as they acquire their knowledge skills, and dispositions. Model and take risks in front of them to demonstrate phases of the learning process and resiliency strategies.
• Knowing one’s content and developing a plethora of strategies to engage students in learning it. Staying abreast of current trends that positively impact teaching and learning.
• Involving students in their learning which also includes centering students’ voice as they learn to construct knowledge and develop their ideas.
• Offering authentic, collaborative, relevant learning experiences connected to students’ lives.
• Using families as resources by tapping into their funds of knowledge.
• Teaching students how to end oppression and discrimination and inequitable actions of any kind. Teach to transgress, not be bystanders.
• Focus on equity and not equality. Students are unique. They have diverse lived experiences, interests, needs, and influences on their lives.
• Being flexible and fluid. Don’t let the standards and assessments paralyze or stagnate teaching. Consider what the people in front of you need at the time. Some may have gaps in knowledge due to a lack of exposure or opportunity.

KC: Do you consider yourself to be a culturally responsive teacher educator today? 

MBG: Of course. As a teacher and leadership educator, I acknowledge that to facilitate meaningful learning experiences that lead to increased knowledge and culturally responsive practices, I must accept, value, and embrace the various cultures, lived experiences, and funds of knowledge people bring with them to my classrooms and workshops. In doing so, I establish positive relationships with them and see their cultural identities have a voice in our meeting spaces, especially in the curriculum.  My classrooms and workshops engage people in reflecting on their own experiences. This facilitates their ability to later make sense of their actions as they interact with others.

KC: Can you share scholarly books published by Dr. Gloria Ladson-Billings and Dr. Sonia Nieto that have challenged your thinking and influenced your work as a culturally responsive teacher in the Bronx and as a teacher educator? 

MBG: The Dreamkeepers: Successful Teachers of African American Children (1994), and Crossing over to Canaan (2001), are two major books published by Dr. Ladson-Billings that influenced and inspired me to practice culturally responsive teaching. In reading and studying her work, I came across three tenets of culturally responsive teaching that guide my work in teacher education—academic achievement/student learning, cultural competence, and socio-political consciousness. Every time Dr. Ladson-Billings is in the area, I am compelled to hear her speak in person. I find myself signifying to affirm her assertions. She does not hesitate to speak the truth. 

Dr. Sonia Nieto’s The Light in Their Eyes: Creating Multicultural Learning Communities (1999) helped me understand the role of culture and lived experiences in student learning. When she shared her journey in education through Brooklyn Dreams: My Life in Public Education (2015), Nieto made me reflect on my own experiences. Maybe when I’ve reached another milestone in education, I will share my own story.

KC: I’m wondering about the significance of each of the tenets of culturally relevant education, can you tell me a bit more? 

MBG: Sure. Dr. Ladson-Billings’ research has suggested that to ensure that students receive a high-quality education, students must experience academic achievement. Teachers are responsible for facilitating student learning by challenging students’ minds through meaningful learning experiences. When providing students with the chance to enhance their knowledge, it is also essential for teachers to help students develop their cultural competence. Teachers must help their students expand their knowledge and understanding of their own culture while acquiring skills from another culture. Hence, giving students the chance to become culturally competent learners in society. 

Finally, students must get the chance to develop their socio-political consciousness. That is, students must get the opportunity to challenge and critically analyze the social inequalities and inequities that are produced and reproduced in their communities and the wider society. In doing so, students learn more about the current conditions of the society in which they live. Back when I used to teach third grade and took my students on those community walks, they also discovered issues in their neighborhoods. After our trips, my students learned to write letters to community leaders about elements of their community that were problematic. One year, this learning experience led to a trip to our town to meet the mayor and visit the city council chambers. Part of being a culturally responsive educator is recognizing that students learn best when learning is natural and connected to their interests and life experiences.

KC: You’ve been an active member in the field of education for three decades, and earlier you shared with me scholarly literature that has influenced your day-to-day practice. I’m wondering if there are any other role models that continue to guide and motivate you to be a culturally responsive teacher educator today? 

MBG: When I think of others whose practices laid the blueprint for me to create my day-to-day practices as a culturally responsive teacher educator, many of them were more activists than scholars. Women like Mary McLeod Bethune, Dorothy Height, Shirley Chisolm, Marva Collins, Dr. Adelaide Sanford, Dr. Leslie Williams, Dr. Vanessa Siddle Walker, Dr. Cynthia Dillard. Oh, I can’t forget about Dr. Yolanda Sealey-Ruiz and her scholarly work in addressing issues of diversity, equity, and social justice in education.  Her spirit, every time Yolanda enters a room, I am drawn to her spirit. Though I’ve never taken a class with her at [Teachers College], Dr. Sealey-Ruiz always makes time to engage in any conversation I initiate. We never part without a hug. I’m a hugger. Human connection is a vital part to my energy and existence. My students who get to know me outside of the classroom context come to see that. It’s a shame that because of the actions of some, educators are not allowed to hug children for fear of accusations.

KC: It is great to hear that you consider yourself to be a culturally responsive teacher educator. Can you tell me about your experience with a teacher education curriculum? Precisely how you approach the curriculum through the lens of culturally responsive teaching.

MBG: Though teacher education programs have many masters to serve as accredited entities, my course artifacts are designed to help my students make practical connections to the content to meet the needs of the students I teach each semester. All of the professional organizations’ standards connect to the course goals and student learning outcomes; however, I take the time to learn about my students’ cultural identities as the courses progress. Through our discussions and my reflective assignments, they reveal their interests, prior knowledge, and current needs as learners. 

When I take the time to connect with my students genuinely, I revisit my course goals and objectives throughout the semester. I revise assignments based on student gaps and interests. At times, I feel that it drives some of my students crazy. However, as a culturally responsive teacher educator, I believe that it is important to be tuned into your students as you teach. In other words, as you teach, you should be scaffolding their learning. At times, that means modifying or eliminating certain assignments. This has allowed me to embrace and enhance the lived experiences, cultures, and funds of knowledge that my students bring with them to the classroom.